Issues Involving NPHA

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New address

Post  joe polly on Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:37 pm

Yes Tim they have my new address. Tim have (you all) had your meeting with UKC on the Black dog problem yet?If so I would like to know how it went. I still do not understand why there is only a few to be in on this meeting and why all of the NPHA officer and director were not included. Are members talk about things going behind closed doors. Well its bad that things are done without all of the directors knowing about it. The NPHA will not grow,it will only get smaller without the knewledge of what is going on BEFORE and AFTER things happen.
Tim have you called and talked to Alan about the website?I know it will be billed to him again in December.
I am sure he will trun it over to you.I can understand why he has not truned it over to Mr. Jerry Chandler yet, sence Mr. Chandler can not even send Alan his letter back as he ask for and was voted on by the broard and passed to do so.It was voted by the broad 2 times (Spring and Plott days meetings)and still Alan has not got it.My ? to you is why has Alan not got his letter yet?

Thanks Perkey that was a good one.LOL

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Tim Hickman on Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:45 am

Joe,

No th emeeting has not happened. As you are aware I do not take office until January 1. As to why Alan has not got his letter back I have no idea. Call Jerry or GAry they are in charge. If we don't get the phone conference in before January 1 you can bet all officers , directors and breed reps will be on the call. Don't know what the delay is Kellam told me soon. As far as Alan turning the website over, I believe it wil be shut down soon., We are looking for some one to administrate a new web site. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Gamegetter on Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:18 am

I know there are several issues going on now in the NPHA and I believe this is the right place for everyone to view opinions and matters concerning the Organization...Not everyone has heard or knows that there is talk about a new website and I for one would hate to hear that....If you all remember this is the second time go around with this website and I think it got started off on the right foot...Alan did a great job of starting this site back up and I know alot agree because of the comments they made themselves....Most know that a few things happened that involved Alan that has left things some what sour here...The reason I make these comments is because I for one would hate to see what has been started here just drop in a blink of the eye...I see where people complain about updates not being made to the website or not much activity but I know this can be resolved...Instead of making comments about this forum being slow or no activity, spark one up your self....Ask about a bloodline or put some of your plott pics on here...But what ever you do keep it clean and open to the public...Don't try to communicate or solve something behind close doors because we have enough of that going on in D.C. and we (NPHA) don't need it here...Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion and welcomed to express it freely but if you cross the line and cause to much negativity I will delete it...And that is one thing I haven't had to do much....This organization was developed on opinions and ideas many many years ago and it will be opinions and ideas that will make this website grow...This is just my opinion I hope to hear a response back from fellow members....Remember one thing is we do this for the sport we love and the mans best hunting or showing friend....The Plott Hound!!!

(I moved a few post to this thread because I thing it belongs here and not where it was posted)

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Thanks

Post  joe polly on Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:45 am

Thanks Perkey for keeping a eye over this website. I think you are doing a good job. And I myself do not want to see it close. I know are last website is owned by some anti`s now. And I do not want to see the same thing with this one.You are correct about people runing this website down, there is no need for that. What they need to do is stand up and give a hand.Once again thanks Perkey

Tim, Also thanks for the quick responce. I have talk to both Gary and Jerry about Alans letter and Gary has told me many of times that he would call Jerry and make sure that it is sent to Alan and still no letter.And I have talk to Jerry many of times and he tells me he will send it when Alan truns over the website.(Just my opinion)Jerry has taking this to a personal problem between him and Alan. I know that it was voted on at 2 meetings and still it has not been done.(like I said this is my opinion)
And as far as I knew Jerry and Gary are not in charge,Gary is,but he still has to answer to the broard and to the membership.And as far as the black dog problem there should not be a problem (at this time) because our breed standard states no solid colors alound. I myself have no problem with a solid colored dog as long as it is DNA-VIP.But I do prefer Brindle myself.. Come Plott Days I fill that this will again come up for a vote. And if it passes by a 2/3 vote it will than be sent out to all paid members to vote on. So everyone that wants to see this, make it to plott days and stand up and be heard and vote.

Any Association is only as good as its members...
So pay your dues and stand up and be heard and vote..And help make this association number one...

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Tim Hickman on Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:32 am

Joe,

I agree with you on the color question. I am working on some thing now that will hit the internet soon. It is not an official NPHA sanctioned deal but I would like some feedback before our spring meeting. I will call you tomorrow and kind of fill you in. What is a good time to call. I will be in Rochester all day while Cindy is having her last round of chemo. I will also try to get a hold of Jerry and ask about the letter. I will also try and call Alan and see what we can do about the website.'

Talk to you soon.

Tim

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Chemo

Post  joe polly on Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:46 pm

Tim,
I hope and pray that the chemo is going well for Cindy. I know a few people that has been thu it and it is not easy to go thu.If you can call between 12 and 2,after 2 I will be with my father and my phone will be off at that time.
I can tell you this as long as a UKC reg. sire and dam are DNA-P we have some where to start and that would make any offspring of them to be DNA-VIP. I know for a fact that DNA can prove weather a dog is out of the dogs thay say it is as long as both sire and dam have DNA-P done.

Also I fill that Alan will get the website turned over to you, if you talk to him about it.Also I have been told that the man that did the front cover of the 2007 yearbook was not giving a ad in it as he was told.I am not sure if he got one or not because I have yet to get my yearbook.

Any thing on where the spring meeting will be yet?

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Tim Hickman on Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:26 pm

Joe, I will try to call you around 1:00pm your time which I think is 12 here. I f you are not on eastern time let me know. I bekieve the spring meeting will be at the BGN's. As soon as we get the location pinned down I will let everyone know. Talk to you soo.

Tim

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Plott Proud on Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:00 am

Gamegetter wrote:I know there are several issues going on now in the NPHA and I believe this is the right place for everyone to view opinions and matters concerning the Organization

I DON'T believe this is the forum to be discussing everything that goes on IN HOUSE. SOME THINGS SHOULD BE KEPT IN HOUSE! This being said because this isn't a secure site where no one but NPHA members can read about such discussions.
This will do nothing but help to tear down our organization by those against us or those within other organizations who detest us here in the NPHA.

This being said I DO NOT BELIEVE SECRET MEETINGS, or MEETINGS NOT INVOLVING ALL WHO SHOULD BE IN ATTENDANCE SHOULD OCCUR EITHER!

Just my 2cents!

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Gamegetter on Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:10 am

I haven't dug deep enough yet but I've noticed on other forums were they have certain sections of the website where only certain people can view comments and threads....That being said I think something like that could work here for a "only paid members allowed section" were issues of this degree can be made and members of the NPHA can know what is going on....As it stands now you are out of the loop if you don't attend a spring meeting or the BG nationals or Plott days...With work and all some people can't afford or just don't have time allowed to take off and attend these events...So they would have to rely on someone else to fill them in and be left of there opinion to make a judgment on....If you run a organization based on only a few people opinions or beliefs then you are bias group...Take a look in Washington now...IS that what we want?...I think not...People shouldn't be control by government but the government controlled by the people....And that be all the people...Like in any organization it should go....There's my opinion....Perkey

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Dennis Fisher on Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:28 pm

You know, this has intrigued the heck out of me since I started in Plotts some 30 some years ago. Maybe intrigued wasn't the right word, discussed, would fit far better.

Maybe cause I'm not a member of the NPHA or the APA doesn't give me a right to see or hear what either organization is doing. But then again, I only hear this kinda stuff coming from the NPHA. But there's a reason I'm not a member of either too. Yes, I've used that "I'm out west and neither Organization does a Damn thing for me" cheap excuse before, but that's not truly why. And even a start of a discussion like this only supports why I'm not even more.

If I maybe allowed, let me point out what I've observed the members of the NPHA doing for over thirty years now. First off, remember all the fighting that caused "those others that are against us or detest us" to become that way. Coon dog vs. big game dogs, simple has that. On and on it has has gone, even today. Have you guys read all the BS about where your going to have your Plott days stuff. The one that tickles me is "it should be held where the Plotts started" stuff. Excellent point, even though I've had Plotts from 9 different Lines and never got one from back east yet. It does bring up a excellent point about the NPHA that every one seems to go right on past. Now some are pointing out that your membership continues to drop. I've heard people make suggestion why that membership continues to drop. But it's always about some hunt somewhere or some book or something. When you guys going to get it??? The APA doesn't seem to ever have these problems and fights like this continually going on. Ever set down and try to figure out why and what's the difference. It ain't because of some hunt or book.

Hell no, I'm not joining the APA. I have supported why and what they did in the late 70's and do today. Be exact, In my opinion, if they hadn't allowed the AKC to open their registry two times, the NPHA probably wouldn't even exist today. My logic on that is quite simple, they stay on target. But the open registry has forever destroyed their registry in my opinion.

I would join the NPHA though. That is, if they ever remember what the heck the Organization exists for. For 60 years it's been fighting about some coon hound vs. big game dog garbage, where are our big hunts are going to be garbage, what going to be in a book stuff, on and on. It has caused a huge amount of Plott Breed owners and Breeders to leave it's ranks. It keeps others like me from wanting to be part of it. I know I have no right to ask because or say anything because I'm not a member. Yes you can lock me out of these issues on a Internet site so I won't witness them. But would any of this of happened or be necessary if the NPHA would just do one simple thing?? The NPHA represents the oldest and most respected registry of the Plott Breed. It's that simple. When the heck is the NPHA ever going to start taking care of what it was created for and quite quibbling about hunts and stuff.

Has I have clearly pointed out, I am not a member of the NPHA. But you will find no other more dedicated to the success and love of our great dogs, the Plott. Do you all even know what your "GREAT" Organization has done in the last year for our Breed while you've have been fighting about Internet sites, hunts and books??? Pull out that "great" 2003 year book that many will stab each other in the back for, then pull out this years. Compare the Standards that "YOU" are responsible for. Pathetic!!! History will record "YOUR" actions this year has being the greatest change, and possibly the demise of our beloved dogs, that this Breed has ever seen. And that's just the start of what the NPHA "should" be taking care of in my opinion. But that's only a opinion of a Plott lover, not a person that cares about that "other" stuff. But they all go back to what the Organization was created for, the Plott Breed. When the heck is the NPHA ever going to represent the Plott Breed again??? Ain't it about time to forget 60 years of Bu*l Sh*t and start taking care of business. Lock us "others" out of how you do if you want. But unless the NPHA gets back on target, back to the beginning, it's going to fail. It's failure would be devastating for our Great Breed. But that's just a opinion of a fellow that has smelled and enjoyed to many Pine trees in Idaho. Not one that lives to go to hunts.

Has far has these Internet Sites goes, many of you know I am one of the owners of the Plottworld Internet Site. It is a independent site, not a free forum such has this one. This is a great site, but is very limited because of it being a free forum. It's so nice in fact, that the way it's set up and looks of it has made me want to get rid of the "Plain Jane / Hillbilly" look of our home page. These Internet sites our the greatest "tool" the Breed has ever had. And that's why I wanted to start the Plottworld site. You guys are more than welcome to use it has you see fit. We've even set up a NPHA section in it for your use. But the minute I ever hear that the Plottworld site is trying to be the "leader or best there is" type BS, I'll shut it down in a second. Hasn't our Breed been damaged enough by those piety "jealousies". I've tried to send many over here to join in on that "buckskin" debate a month or so ago, but they can't get on. Our great Breed needs all the tools it can get and with that, it's my opinion that the NPHA needs a Independent site. Do you guys know that's there not even a address or phone number on this site where I could join the NPHA. Now how the heck are you going to get new membership if no one can find out how to join it??? The Plottworld site, I believe, can even be expanded to take billing and stuff like that. After it was set up, it costs about $200 to $250 a year to run that site the way it is now. It'll cost another $150 or so to get the main site itself, the part everyone see's. I'm sure the NPHA can afford that.

I sincerely hope I didn't ruffle any feathers with this. I truly want the NPHA to succeed and once again become the Organization that "Leads and Guides" our breed. And I do not want "leading" to be in "squabbling" either. Just taking care of the Breed itself will work for me, and I'm be a member in a second.

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Pocahontas on Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:46 pm

Mr. Fisher; Well said. Amen

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Shane on Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:51 am

Dennis very well said .

But I would surely hate to see the NPHA use your site as it's site . Moderation is a needed tool but your site takes it to far . These sites need straight but respectful talk , not something that would promote slanderous accusations.
Dennis Fisher wrote:

Has far has these Internet Sites goes, many of you know I am one of the owners of the Plottworld Internet Site. It is a independent site, not a free forum such has this one. This is a great site, but is very limited because of it being a free forum.

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Dennis Fisher on Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:42 pm

Shane, you said I said that well, but did you really read it for the Breed or for yourself??? This ain't about some Internet site, nor coon hunt some where or some book and how it's published. IT"S ABOUT THE PLOTT BREED.

So what if some coons hunts happen in a manor or in a place some people don't want. There's will always be those "others". But what should come first for a Organization that's defined has the Organization RESPONSIBLE for the oldest and most respected registry of our Breed, or those "others". So what about some book. Sure it's used to promote the NPHA and the Breed. But the Breed is made up of the people controlling it's destiny. Is it now more important to promote those people or the Breed itself??? So what about some damn Internet site. We all know what those can turn into. And that sure has heck ain't helping the Breed one little bit either. But there still "tools", that's all just "tools". There used and run by the people who own them in whatever manor they choose. I hate it seeing it, when people try to belittle each other has you have tried to do with me on this issue. What are you to gain out of it??? I wrote the Mission Statement of the Plottworld site, and it was approved by the other owners of it. But I didn't write them for me or you, I wrote them for what I thought would help the Breed with that "tool". No where in that Mission Staement does it allow anyone to belittle another. No politics or Organizations are promoted there. It's totally intent and Mission is for one thing and one thing only, the Plott Breed. No one, nor no Organization can make everyone happy. No matter how hard they try. Your one of the 4 out of 600 members, in two years time since that site has been up and running that aren't allowed on it. GET OVER IT AND GET ON TARGET!!! This ain't about you, this ain't about me, this ain't about a Internet Site, this ain't about some coon hunt, this ain't about some Line of Bear dogs and this ain't about some book. Did you not read anything I wrote??? This is about the NPHA and how it is going to survive. Most most important of all, is the BREED should always come before anything, Organization, hunt, book, Internet site, whatever. Our dogs and the great Plott Breed gave us all of them. They must be taken care of first and foremost.

But the intent of your comments it's a perfect example of what has happen in the NPHA, only the NPHA's is a 1000 fold. So what if 60 years ago some oversize, long eared, really good coon dog start a battle within the NPHA. What is important is how that battle has changed or controlled the NPHA and the Breed every since. Can't this battle over 60 years old now be put a side for the Breed. Can't we now with modern day technology and what we have now learned come together on a consensus for what's right for our Great Dogs, the Plott. After 60 years hasn't the Breed become "what it is". So can't we all just "Get Over It" and all work for what best for our Breed.

"Getting Over It" is far more than just some battle. It's a realignment of priorities. This battle start 60 years ago about "standards". You all know the stories. The division it has caused and possible changing of our Breed. But I'm not letting one issue get side tracked by another here. With all the division the changing of "standards" cause back then. Who the hell is taking responsibility for the changing of "standards in 2009". It is the RESPONSIBILITY of the NPHA, you know. You talk about the changes in 58 being extreme and damaging to the Breed. While you NPHA members were so concerned about hunts and stuff, do you even know that the most dramatic rewrite of the NPHA's Standards happened under your "watchful" eyes in 2009. I bet not a one of you knows what the heck I'm talking about!!! The Standards were "changed" to some degree in 58,78,79,93,03 and 09 from the originals in 46. You all have those great books. Use them and see what you've allowed to happen to our Breed. Correct me if I'm wrong and I'm stepping way out of bounds with this 2009 Standards thing. I did not bring it up to cause more childish controversy. I only brought it up to show where the NPHA's priorities have seemed to have gone from a individual looking in from the "outside".

I want to point out that I did NOT bring up the Plottworld site has being one that will "take" control over the NPHA"s affairs or enhancement. That's goes against the Mission Statement of the site and won't be allowed to happen. Any Organization that has a effect on our Great Breed of dogs is always welcome there though. Has I'm sure they would on the other major Plott site, Plottdogs. There's some good and dang dedicated Plottmen on both and that own them both. The NPHA's continued success is vital for our Breed. If that Organization fails, you know the UKC will have total control over the registry of it. And we know what controls them. I only brought it up to point out the costs and what a Independant site can have over a free forum. I brought up the business expansion to use has a example of what a Independent site has. Wouldn't it be nice to have a site for the NPHA that had the ability to take credit card payments for the membership. The site it self would do ever thing. All the secretary or whoever would have to do is balance the books and transfer the name to the membership roister. But I have no say on that, I only wanted to try and help!!!

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Shane on Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:19 am

Dennis your right it is not about me or you but it would not be a good thing for you and Kevin to have the reigns of moderation for anything to do with NPHA .
Unless you have changed you were more than willing to allude to and demean others and encouraged others to do the same.You were not interested in the truth. The truth is the most important thing.
You have some fantastic Ideas that I think would be good for the breed , do i think you and Kevin should have anything more than a voice in the organization nope. . Do I have something against you and Kevin yes I do . But I would never let something personal get in the way of something good or right for the breed.

I was asked to come back to the site , I declined . So I have nothing in the way against not being able to get on your site . I was over it right after it happened.

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Plott Proud on Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:05 am

Mr Fisher ~ You have some good ideas. Maybe you'd consider joining the NPHA and sharing them with the organization. Perhaps you'd even consider running for one of the elected positions so as to discuss them at a board meeting.

You, or anyone else who wants to be on the inside and help promote the Plott Breed & the NPHA, may send your check to me. Made out to the NPHA.
You can find my address in The Full Cry under the article I write for the California Houndsmen for Conservation.

You can also find it listed in the Nov & Dec Coonhound Bloodlines magazines within the NPHA article that our President Tim Hickman has written.
I figure you do get one or both of these magazines. If not, send me an email @ rebelprideplotts@att.net and I'll send you my mailing address. Or if you'd like, just send me a PM here.

Thank!
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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Dennis Fisher on Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:18 am

Thank you Irv. Hopefully this is going to help some and I'm more than willing to help anyway I can. The only Organizations or magazines I subscribe to or belong to so far is the NRA, USSA, the Idaho Houndsman Ass. and the SCI. The only possible thing that could over whelm the importance of our dogs and our ability to hunt them to me is that of protecting our places to hunt and the defense of our sport itself. What good are dogs if you can't hunt them, for what ever reason. Sure might take you up on the going to Plott days. I been wanting to see one of those Competition Coon Hunts for 30 some years. Not to mention being able to meet so many great hunters and individuals. Thanks Again for the info, and best wishes to the NPHA!!!

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Andy Drumm on Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:35 pm

Dennis , you mention how AKC opening their registration has destroyed it ... Just curious how that has happened ? By the way I do not own any AKC registered dogs ... But I was under the impression according to their rules , A dog had to have a three generation pedigree from UKC to get registered with the AKC

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Dennis Fisher on Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:34 pm

The APA was started in 1987. I totally agreed to why it was started, the separation of our Breed because of color and color alone was totally unexplainable and unacceptable to me then, has it is now. So I became a member and also registered my dogs with both the UKC and the AKC. Then around 89 the AKC tried to copy, to some extent, the bear dog certification program that Tony Brown had started and that became so successful. But they did it nothing like Tony did. I was heavily involved with that. Then they opened up their registry and ask if I'd be a Breed Judge. Dummy me, I accepted. The first dog that was brought to me I knew very well. A good looking "Plott' that was half Black & Tan. Then came a Redbone with about a 1/4 Plott. Just enough Plott to have a few "race'n stripes". I ain't, no way, no how, ever going to be a part of that. Those dogs did get single registered, but it sure has heck wasn't by me. Then after that single registered dog is bred to a "PR" bred dog for two generations, the pups become "PR" Breed. I maybe a person that only breeds to others of the Line I hunt and this would not effect me. But to the cross breeder, especially one just starting out, that doesn't know the history of the dogs in that pedigree, this would never be known. You know all the BS that goes on and is said about the white in a Plott, the Belvins/Cable influence, the Leapord influence and the Bloodhound junk. Those ain't NOTHING like was put into that registry during that open registration period. Then, I'll be da*n, they went and did it again. This is my opinion and mine alone, but you can have that registry. I won't register my dogs before you see me using it. The success of the NPHA and it's ability to regain the control of our Breed with UKC registry, is my only hope of keeping a registered dog. That's why I support the NPHA so hardly with this effort, THE BREED.

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Andy Drumm on Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:43 pm

I was not aware of the open single registration to have worked that way with akc .I thought you had to have some sort of recognized pedigree to be registered .
You will always have crooks registering dogs that shouldnt have, as long as money is involved ... I hate to say it but it even happens in UKC .. I dont believe UKC has had an open registration in the Plott breed in many years .. So finding one that is not "PR" bred should be pretty tough ..

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Dennis Fisher on Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:48 pm

Please correct me if I'm wrong. The only open registration the NPHA had was for just under two years following the Breed acceptance into the UKC in 46. 60 dogs were registered during that time.

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Andy Drumm on Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:50 pm

I think you are pretty close on that Dennis Very Happy

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Gamegetter on Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:30 pm

After a long couple of days of thanksgiving with the family and trying to get a lil deer hunting in I get some time to get back on the computer....I see I missed a good couple of posts about things...I agree with you Dennis that things need to get back to way they ought to be and I feel as this site can be used as one of the tools to do that....Issues can be taken care of and resolved to move forward in this great organization....I remember the very first Plott days i went to and it was with a good hunting buddy of mine that is a lifetime member of NPHA and I really enjoyed that long weekend around all those great dogs....I was so impressed that I couldn't leave there with out having me one of these Plotts...And from that day I have always owned Plotts and will continue to own Plotts as long as I'm in the woods or mountains....There is sooo much knowledge and respectable people in the NPHA and it is them that we owe our thanks too....I want to see the NPHA stay the powerhouse of the Plott world and grow stronger with each year to come...I hope everyone had a great thanksgiving and are looking forward to Christmas coming and the next time you can get your Plotts out into the woods.....Perkey

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

Post  Gamegetter on Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:22 am

Dennis Fisher wrote:Do you guys know that's there not even a address or phone number on this site where I could join the NPHA. Now how the heck are you going to get new membership if no one can find out how to join it???


Not to start something but if you refer to the home page before you come into the Message Forum you will see a section called "How to Join"...Just wanted to make that point made so there were no differences....Perkey

http://www.mynpha.com/NPHA_Home.htm

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Perkey Plott Hounds

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Re: Issues Involving NPHA

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